Wounded in action...yeah right!!
<font color="#990000">Kerry's first Purple Heart </font>
A FAQ and one I had while watching the convention...
1. If most of Kerry's fellow Swift veterans don't support him, then who were all those guys with him at the Democratic Convention?
They made it appear that Kerry has the complete support of his "Band of Brothers" from Vietnam. John Kerry has been able to convince about 13 men who served on Swift boats in the Mekong Delta to support him, 7 or 8 of whom were at various times crew members on his own 6-man boat. Those are the men the Kerry campaign so prominently featured at the Democratic Convention. The photograph we have posted at SwiftVets.com shows Kerry with 19 of his fellow Swift boat OICs (Officers In Charge) in Coastal Division 11. Four OICs were not present for the photograph. Only one of his 23 fellow OICs from Coastal Division 11 supports John Kerry.
Overall, more than 250 Swift boat veterans are on the record questioning Kerry's fitness to serve as Commander-in-Chief. That list includes his entire chain of command -- every single officer Kerry served under in Vietnam. The Kerry game plan is to ignore all this and pretend that the 13 veterans his campaign jets around the country and puts up in 5-star hotels really represent the truth about his short, controversial combat tour.
<font color="#99000">See what Kerry's chain of command thinks about him </font>
<font color="#990000">Open letter to the distinguished senator from Mass-ew-chew-sitts from his former shipmates</font>
Instead of talking about how he helped our country while a member of the Senate, Kerry made his military service the central piece of his acceptance speech and his campaign. I think this is all germane.
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ August 04, 2004 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Jumper69 ]</font>
Jumper
It might be germane if it came from an even slightly reliable source.
Have you noticed that all of this "swiftvets" attack comes back to one site and pretty much one person, John O'Neill? It's the same type of disinformation campaign that the bush administration is famous for all over again.
Don't have time right now but a few links:
<font color="red">The GOP's not-so-impartial hit man</font>
<font color="green">FOX exposed anti-Kerry vets' flip-flopping</font>
Well I figured you'd come back with that logic Pina. However, as biased as you claim swiftvets.com to be, I can make the same claim with Airamerica.com et al.
Point being that no side can really claim to be totally objective but it really makes my veteran ears perk up when I see live VIDEO of comments made by SEVERAL of Kerry's CoC. To me, that goes a long long way towards describing Kerry's character.
There is a lot of information on that site that doesn't jibe with what Kerry would have us believe.
I would be very much interesed in reading the write ups for Kerry's three PH's. I was browsing his military records but cannot find that, nor his fitness reports.
I suppose we could trade websites one for one Pina but what's the point really. Everyone will have to make up their own individual minds based on what is important to them.
Since Kerry has chosen to make his military service a central theme of his campaign, I will judge him based on information I can find about his service. I would like to think I can be objective about Kerry's ability to be President. I do consider the sources when I evaluate claims, both pro and con.
I haven't been able to discern where his former chain of command has an agenda other than to tell what they believe Sen Kerry has neglected to reveal about his 4.5 month tour.
Thanks for commenting. Nobody wants to play today and I figured you'd at least touch this one.
[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] Well done! [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
Really don't have time today so stop sucking me back in dammit! [img]smile.gif[/img]
Take a look at the many many links that the two references I posted have in the copy of their articles.
One thing that I look for when trying to seperate the crap from the cream is how many independent sources can I find to back up the information.
I don't see where swiftvets are backed up by anyone. That's what I was getting at. They are the source of most all of your anti-Kerry information about his service and they have not established credentials as a reliable source and are not supported by other independent news sources.
It's like all the Washington Post articles that trav likes to post here. Problem is that the Post has an enormous problem with blurring the boundaries between truth and fiction, ah hell, they just make it up for the most part. Likewise with swiftvets. Where is thier collaboration?
Well I would think that actually being there would count for some kind of corrabaration (forgive the misspelling).
I am looking for independant sources but they're as hard to find as whore in the vatican. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Your sources were informative but hardly objective. Pretty much all information has a democratic or republican slant to it.
I'm voting for Sluggo anyway so it's all mute.
She rocks my world!! [img]graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Reverend David Alston served with John Kerry in the swift boat and gave a speech at the Democratic convention.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In addition, there was a large group of top military brass on stage at the Democratic convention. I don't have a list at the moment, but it included Admiral William J. Crowe, at least one other former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Wesley Clark, Admiral Stansfield Turner former head of CIA, and so on......It would have been easiest, in an ambush, to simply rake the shore with return fire and roar on down the river to safety. But Lieutenant Kerry was known for taking the fight straight to the enemy.
...In the toughest of situations, Lieutenant Kerry showed judgment, loyalty and courage. Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.
...Lieutenant Kerry always took the time to calm us down, to bring us back to reality, to give us hope, to show us what we truly had within ourselves. I came to love and respect him as a man I could trust with life itself.
Reverend David Alston, speech transcript
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ August 05, 2004 06:40 AM: Message edited by: LanDroid ]</font>
Kerry was there. Getting shot at.
Where was George W. Bush? No one is quite sure...and that would include Bush himself.
My post about Kerry in NO way implies that I have the slightest doubt the W ducked service in the Vietnam.
W, in fact, should be embarassed. BUT....Kerry served just 4.5 months, earned a silver star, bronze star, and three purple hearts. All from a swift boat??? I know Green Berets and SEALS that didn't get that kind of action...
Things that make you go hmmmmmm???? [img]graemlins/wonder.gif[/img]
<font color="#000002" size="1">[ August 05, 2004 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Jumper69 ]</font>
<font size="4">McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad</font>
<font size="1">McCain Calls Ad Criticizing Kerry's Military Service 'Dishonest and Dishonorable'</font>
WASHINGTON Aug. 5, 2004 ? Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.
The White House declined.
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.
The 60-second ad features Vietnam veterans who accuse the Democratic presidential nominee of lying about his decorated Vietnam War record and betraying his fellow veterans by later opposing the conflict.
"When the chips were down, you could not count on John Kerry," one of the veterans, Larry Thurlow, says in the ad. Thurlow didn't serve on Kerry's swiftboat, but says he witnessed the events that led to Kerry winning a Bronze Star and the last of his three Purple Hearts. Kerry's crewmates support the candidate and call him a hero.
The ad, scheduled to air in a few markets in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, was produced by Stevens, Reed, Curcio and Potham, the same team that produced McCain's ads in 2000.
"I wish they hadn't done it," McCain said of his former advisers. "I don't know if they knew all the facts."
Asked if the White House knew about the ad or helped find financing for it, McCain said, "I hope not, but I don't know. But I think the Bush campaign should specifically condemn the ad."
McCain, chairman of Bush's campaign in Arizona, later said the Bush campaign has denied any involvement and added, "I can't believe the president would pull such a cheap stunt."
White House spokesman Scott McClellan declined to condemn the ad. He did denounce the proliferation of spending by independent groups, such as the anti-Kerry veterans organization, that are playing on both sides of the political fence.
"The president thought he got rid of this unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reform into law," McClellan said. A chief sponsor of that bill, which Bush initially opposed, was McCain.
In 2000, Bush's supporters sponsored a rumor campaign against McCain in the South Carolina primary, helping Bush win the primary and the nomination. McCain's supporters have never forgiven the Bush team.
McCain said that's all in the past to him, but he's speaking out against the anti-Kerry ad because "it reopens all the old wounds of the Vietnam War, which I spent the last 35 years trying to heal."
"I deplore this kind of politics," McCain said. "I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. Many of his crew have testified to his courage under fire. I think John Kerry served honorably in Vietnam. I think George Bush served honorably in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War."
Retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, head of the Swift Boat group, said they respected McCain's "right to express his opinion and we hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly since we served with John Kerry, we knew him well and Sen. McCain did not."
McCain himself spent more than five years in a Vietnam prisoner of war camp. A bona fide war hero, McCain, like Kerry, used his war record as the foundation of his presidential campaign.
The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. Three veterans on Kerry's boat that day Jim Rassmann, who says Kerry saved his life, Gene Thorson and Del Sandusky, the driver on Kerry's boat, said the group was lying.
They say Kerry was injured, and Rassmann called the group's account "pure fabrication."
The general counsel for the Kerry campaign and the Democratic National Committee sent television stations a letter asking them not to run the ad because it is "an inflammatory, outrageous lie" by people purporting to have served with Kerry.
Hoffmann said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry's boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry's. The group claims that there was no gunfire on the day Kerry pulled Rassmann from a muddy river in the Mekong Delta and that Kerry's arm was not wounded, as he has claimed.
<font color="purple">Source</font>
<font size="4">Submerging the truth about Swift Boat Vets on Hannity & Colmes, Scarborough Country</font>
FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes and MSNBC's Scarborough Country both gave free airtime on August 4 to a new, misleading ad sponsored by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a recently formed group dedicated to attacking Senator John Kerry's record during and after his service in Vietnam. Both programs devoted segments to the ad, airing it the day before its scheduled release, but left out key facts that discredit Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
In an August 5 interview with the Associated Press, Senator John McCain (R-AZ), "a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called the ad criticizing John Kerry's military service 'dishonest and dishonorable' and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well."
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth did not serve alongside Kerry
In the new ad, members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claim that they "served with John Kerry." Hannity & Colmes co-host Sean Hannity echoed the false claim, saying that the veterans in the ad are "the people that know him best," and referred to them as "some of his fellow crewmates." Even Pat Halpin, who was filling in for co-host Alan Colmes, called them "some of John Kerry's crewmates." Scarborough echoed Swift Boat Veterans' misleading claim that they "served with John Kerry in Vietnam."
While the veterans attacking Kerry in the ad are veterans of the Vietnam War and may have served at the same time as Kerry, as The New York Times reported on August 5, the Kerry campaign noted that "none of the men had actually served on the Swift boats that Mr. Kerry commanded." Adm. Roy F. Hoffman, one of the veterans in the ad, has even "acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit Kerry's claims to valor," the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported on May 7, "and said that although Kerry was under his command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally."
In contrast, many of the veterans who have appeared on the campaign trail with Kerry did serve alongside him. The Wall Street Journal's Albert R. Hunt noted in his August 5 "Campaign Journal" column, titled "Sham Charges Against a War Hero" (subscription required): "Indeed, 10 of the 11 men who served on his two swift boats all have sworn by John Kerry; nine living members were in Boston [for the Democratic National Convention]."
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's Republican ties
As Media Matters for America previously noted, on May 4, Salon.com's Joe Conason detailed Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's ties to the Republican Party. In addition to pointing out that the group's founder, John O'Neill, has long-standing ties to the GOP that can be traced back to the Nixon administration, Conason also reported that among the people behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is "veteran corporate media consultant and Texas Republican activist Merrie Spaeth, who is listed as the group's media contact."
As MMFA has documented, both Hannity & Colmes co-host Alan Colmes (on May 28) and FOX chief political correspondent Carl Cameron (on May 4) reported the group's Republican ties on FOX News Channel; on May 4, Scarborough mentioned criticism of O'Neill's "dirty tricks" for the Nixon administration. While Scarborough did mention on August 4 that the group was part of the "Republican counteroffensive" "prepar[ing] to release blistering attacks in John Kerry's Vietnam record," Hannity completely ignored the group's ties to the GOP.
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth doctor did not sign Kerry's medical record
Neither Hannity nor Scarborough bothered to note that Dr. Louis Letson, who is featured in the ad claiming to have treated Kerry for the wound that earned him his first Purple Heart and claiming that it was undeserved, was not the medical official who signed Kerry's medical records for the wound. The Kerry campaign noted this fact in a report in The New York Times and a report in the Los Angeles Times that surfaced when Letson first unleashed this attack in May.
In criticizing the ad, McCain told the Associated Press, "'It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me'... referring to his [McCain's] bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush," according to the AP. As Conason reported on May 4, "The 'swift boat' veterans attacking John Kerry's war record are led by veteran right-wing operatives using the same vicious techniques they used against John McCain four years ago." Conason explained that Spaeth (the group's media contact) participated during the 2000 Republican primary contest in TV ads that "falsely attack[ed]" McCain's environmental record in California, New York, and Ohio.
McCain might have been referring as well to attacks on his military record by Ted Sampley and Thomas Burch, both Vietnam veterans, during the 2000 primary season. As Media Matters for America previously reported, Sampley hounded McCain as a "Manchurian Candidate" -- suggesting that the decorated veteran and former prisoner of war was a brainwashed communist agent -- and was convicted for misdemeanor assault related to an attack on one of McCain's legislative aides. Sampley is the leader of a group called Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry. During the 2000 Republican primary in South Carolina, Burch, according to a February 22 report in the Chicago Tribune, "stood with George W. Bush at his side and accused Sen. John McCain of Arizona of opposing health care for Persian Gulf war veterans and blocking efforts to locate POW-MIAs, saying the former prisoner of war "came home from Vietnam and forgot us."
? K.B. & N.C.
Posted to the web on Thursday August 5, 2004 at 4:12 PM EST
<font color="cyan">Source</font>
Check out the original for more refs and links to sources.
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